[note: I wrote this last January. I would write it differently now, but I still find it thought-provoking and think it offers insight into some of the stuff I've been thinking about.]
I will tell you that I am a Christian. I am not an orthodox one. I am so far gone into what I hope to be heterodoxy (and fear, at times, to be heresy) that many would say I am not a Christian at all. But I identify myself as one because at the core of my world is Jesus of Nazareth.
I’m agnostic more often than I’m comfortable with. I might even say that I’m an agnostic Christian. I have faith in many stories and many people, but I don’t have beliefs about some propositions that are central to many people’s conception of Christianity. I have faith in the story of Jesus and faith in “God”, but I’m not sure what it means to believe that God “exists” or to believe that the supernatural is “real”. I’m not a dualist – I don’t accept the strict distinction between soul and body, between spiritual and physical. (Indeed, I argue that the fact of the Incarnation, which is the starting point of my theology, politics, etc., necessitates the rejection of ontological dualism. This is connected, at some level, to my somewhat panentheistic understanding of the Trinity. My theories about the nature of God are of course in tension with my feeling that at some level saying that God exists (or doesn’t exist) is meaningless or useless or irrelevant.) I might even be a materialist, in the ontological sense. At any rate, I’m not comfortable saying that I’m not a materialist.
Mysticism is an important component of Christian religion. Obviously a central challenge for non-dualist, materialist, (pseudo-)agnostic Christians such as I is the question of how to make sense of mysticism and make mysticism relevant in our own religious lives. What is the nature of spiritual experience, which cannot in itself be discounted even as most frameworks for interpreting it are rejected?
I propose a materialist mysticism, a mysticism of symbol and metaphor. For the non-dualist, the material is the spiritual; no distinction can be made, no separation posited. Thus, all material experiences can be understood to be spiritual ones. (This act of understanding or of seeing in a different way, with the result that we orient ourselves different toward that which is ultimate, is what we call “faith”.) This is why, as poets have long understood, the contemplation of nature is an intensely “spiritual” experience that reveals to us whatever it is that we know as “God”. This is why living in poverty or walking down a street at night serve as vehicles for theological reflection.
Tonight I meditated in a Buddhist chaplaincy, sitting on one of a circle of pillows enclosing a group of shimmering candles. (My prayer was that a parable, or story, or metaphor about these candles might come to me.) I understood the candles to be like stars, shining in the night. I saw them as universes going in and out of existence. They were atoms, tiny particles, constituents of something grander. They were moments in time, infinite futures stretching from the present, infinite pasts converging to the now. They were both cosmos and microcosmos. I saw in them the glory of something that I have elsewhere called “God”, but any conception of God or Brahman or universe or humanity is inadequate to express fully the mystery and truth that we call by so many names.
This was of course a metaphor. Just a story, or a product of linguistic associations of meaning. It was material and physical. This means of course that it was spiritual and mystical.



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29 July 2010 at 10:03
Kristian Canler
This was an invigorating reread. I love the excitement in a new world and expectation of future development. The ideas feel new here, where for me over the past few months I have forced them to become stale dogmas. I like this because through the philosophy it is trying to get to the mysticism and is trying to see how that mysticism applies to the real world. That is, after all, what real philosophy is. It’s just less tied down and very personal, which I like. In short, this is somewhat inspiring and reminds me of the days when ideas were big but fun, where theology could change as fluently as our narrative view of the world (since that is, after all, what it is meant to serve). Because our identity (Jesus/story) is dynamic, the theology that serves it is dynamic, too. This reminded me of a particular point in a story of changing theology before, for me, it became rigid for a while. But I’m still excited about what these words promise.
I like this because your theology was so active that you were “uncomfortable” with where it was going. That’s cool. Thanks.
29 July 2010 at 10:27
kristiancanler
You know, I just realized that materialist mysticism might be the best (plus alliterative) way to describe my approach to the Christian faith in context of the American Protestant Christianity in which I have been raised. Rejecting “extra” stuff, spiritualism and superstition and whatever you want to call it. Matt, I think you know what I’m trying to isolate here. Anyway, rejecting that, but still doing the connection with the Spirit in Christian community thing. Religion without religion. Putting religion on the cross so we can have Religion. Yeah?
Plus I have a blog now.
29 July 2010 at 11:25
CharlesDavidReid
I agree that mysticism is closely and uniquely linked with Christianity – I encourage you to look up medieval mysticism – but I think that to forgo the idea of God as an existential certainty is to take the wonder out of the universe, not vice versa. Jakob Bohme and his theosophy might be a good place to start if you’re looking for a mystical understanding of the tenets of Christianity. As concerns Buddhism, I hold that truth is found in many places, including concepts espoused by other religions. Just because you meditated in a Buddhist chaplaincy doesn’t mean that you cannot reconcile the truth you discovered therein with an orthodox understanding of the central truths of Christianity (notice I didn’t say orthodox Christianity, rather an orthodox knowledge of its central message). I believe that God would not have inspired the scriptures in its current format if there were no literal message to the text. Metaphorical mysticism is all well and good, but a transcendental reality must be acknowledged, a la Henry David Thoreau, in order to fully appreciate the complex truths taught by scripture. I think that Christian Agnosticism, as you call it, is an epistemological mistake, and one you should rethink for the sake of philosophical integrity.
29 July 2010 at 12:09
Matt Shafer
@Kristian, thanks for your comments. That’s very encouraging.
@David, a few things re: your comments —
“I think that to forgo the idea of God as an existential certainty is to take the wonder out of the universe, not vice versa”
This doesn’t make sense to me. First of all, a question: when you say “existential certainty,” do you mean certainty of the existence of God (which would more properly be called ontological certainty) or do you mean certainty of the meaningfulness (existential significance of the concept of) God (which is the more straightforward reading of the phrase)? If the former, I fail to see how that makes sense — ontological uncertainty seems naturally to increase, rather than decrease, wonderment. If the latter, I see how you could have a point (as in, “if there’s no meaning, why wonder?”), but since I don’t think that nihilism follows from existential uncertainty (I think quite the opposite, in fact), I would have to disagree here too.
“I believe that God would not have inspired the scriptures in its current format if there were no literal message to the text.” What’s your point here? I’m not sure what this is in reference too. Also, more importantly, what do you mean by “inspired” and by “literal message”?
“transcendental reality must be acknowledged, a la Henry David Thoreau, in order to fully appreciate the complex truths taught by scripture.” Expand on this. Not sure what you mean about Thoreau.
29 July 2010 at 13:52
Andrew Furst
@David, yes please elaborate. I’m interested in your response as well.
@Matt – an excellent little thread you’ve started. I’m a Buddhist – which you might say is synonymous with the term transcendental materialist. From a Buddhist perspective I think the most pertinent point is that the divine pervades all of nature, the universe. This is in the form of an indestructable union, not in the form of two substances, body and spirit. By positing this position, Buddhism refutes dualism, but it also acknowledges the divine.
Acts 17:28 ‘For in him we live and move and have our being.’ As some of your own poets have said, ‘We are his offspring.’
Job 12:10 In whose hand is the life of every living thing, And the breath of all mankind?
29 July 2010 at 14:13
Matt Shafer
Good comments about buddhism. I’m fascinated by the conversation between Christianity and Buddhism — I feel like there’s a lot of parallels there that can be really illuminating. Any tips on where to start for exploring that?
29 July 2010 at 18:21
Andrew Furst
A recent topic of study for me that I think offers an nice launching point for investigating parallels between Christianity and Buddhism is the Trinity and what in Buddhism is called the Trikaya.
The Trikaya is a layered teaching which is essentially built on the concepts of the three bodies of the Buddha.
1. the dharmakaya or truth body, essence, or the true Self (divine),
2. nirmanakaya, the space into which the divine pervades and is unfolding,
3. and the sambhogakaya, the enjoyment body which is the actual unfolding, evolving and playing of the divine in space – i.e. the world of forms, the objects of our senses, our personalities, our bodies in lifetime after lifetime.
I see parallels to the father (dharmakaya), the son (sambhogakaya) and the holy ghost (nirmanakaya)
One thing in common between Christianity and Buddhisms is there are fundamentalists who adhere to literalistic translations of scripture and those that see the teachings as a finger pointing to God. The Buddha made it clear that when God is found the teachings can be cast aside as simply a vehicle for making the journey.
With this understanding I have found it delightful to reread the Christian scriptures only to find the words of the Buddhas flowing beautifully from the pens of the inspired teachers of the Christian faith. My teacher often reverently refers the Jesus as the Great Master Jesus and celebrates his truly enlightened dharma.
29 July 2010 at 21:29
Matt Shafer
That’s fascinating. Thanks for sharing that — I’ll definitely have to look into it more.
29 July 2010 at 16:28
Richyroethke
I admit that the scripture comment was somewhat out of context, and was more in reference to your position on biblical interpretation. the only relevance is that I see your acceptance of an agnostic Christianity as directly influenced by a loose interpretation of the gospel message of scripture, one which i disagree with. but that is indeed a topic for a different time.
As far as existential certainty goes, I believe I meant both, as a matter of fact, but I can see how it was confusing. I think you might do well to reevaluate your assumption that wonder is increased as certainty is decreased. for instance, we can accept that God exists without being certain about “why” He exists, and in that instance the wonder is increased because you would not have such a fantastic concept to ruminate upon (the why of God’s existence as opposed to the if). as far as the meaning of that knowledge, I think that is directly related to the ontological certainty, for without ontological certainty of something’s existence it is difficult at best to muse on whether or not that existence is meaningful (which is a semantic issue with nihilism that highlights a deep philosophical dilemma, I think…but that’s more directly related to Anselm’s ontology than to existentialism of any sort and not exactly on topic).
By a transcendental reality, I am referring to the knowledge of a higher level of existence than that which is empirically verifiable: faith in the existence of God is neither logical nor empirically supportable, but neither is it falsifiable according to either. This implies that a different type of knowledge is required in order to be certain of God’s existence, namely, an intuitive knowledge: transcendental knowledge. Although Thoreau never actually acknowledged an adherence to the Christian faith, he was a believer in the existence of a supreme being. Why I’m mentioning this is because I believe that the issue for you is how a belief in God can be true to the central message of Christianity, and this is tied in to your understanding of the ontological argument that Christianity makes for God’s existence. I suppose a good question would be what exactly you think the central message of Christianity is, and how you reconcile that with the agnostic tendencies you’ve put forth, because I personally see a very strong argument in the Bible for God’s existence.
29 July 2010 at 18:14
kristiancanler
I sincerely thank you for you words. In first readings I did not conceive the connection between Christian agnosticism and materialism, but your mention of “transcendental knowledge” helped me make the connection. I believe Matt’s reflection insinuates there is no knowledge but empirical knowledge, a consequence of materialism. Matt doesn’t argue for materialism, only proposes it with the thought that most haven’t before conceived it compatible with Christianity. I guess he, like me, would suppose the mere presentation of the idea helpful to intellectuals and laymen alike.
29 July 2010 at 19:03
JDHomrighausen
Hi Matt,
Never seem to agree with you philosophically but admire the way you express what you think – the spiritual bent that my dry philosophic prose hasn’t gotten yet.
Curious how you respond to Richyroethke’s last sentence about squaring agnosticism with Christianity. Leslie Weatherhead wrote a book called The Christian Agnostic, I’ve heard it’s quite good, if you’d like to read it together let me know.
“if it’s a symbol, then to hell with it.” — Flannery O’Conner
Jonathan
29 July 2010 at 21:07
kristiancanler
I agree. A materialist mysticism is not one found primarily in symbols and metaphors. I don’t know if Matt meant that. Symbols and metaphors are for reaching out from Earth to Heaven. Mysticism is about Heaven period.
29 July 2010 at 21:44
Matt Shafer
I’ll group all my replies into this one comment. Also, for those who are confused, “CharlesDavidReid” and “rickyroethke” are the same person (as evidenced by the site the two names both link to).
@David (rickyroethke): We’ll leave the scriptural issues aside for now, as you say. I guess what our back-and-forth demonstrates is that wonderment (a subjective emotion) isn’t correlated universally with either certainty or uncertainty. But as for your point about the necessity of ontology for meaningfulness, well, I disagree. When it comes to God, I prefer to sidestep the ontological question entirely, because I think God is prior to it. See my post about “The Color Of Electrons and the Ontology of God” from earlier this month and my post “Agnostic Faith” from late last month.
As for your claims about the necessity of a “transcendental reality”: I would draw a distinction between transcendental reality and God, as the latter is prior both to the former and to everyday ontology, too (as I see it). And so I must remain agnostic, more or less, about a transcendental reality that is more than metaphor.
This brings me to Kristian Canler’s comment. Sorry Kristian, but I think you’re fundamentally missing my point. You write that “A materialist mysticism is not one found primarily in symbols and metaphors,” but that’s precisely what I’m arguing for. My claim (drawn from my experience) is that metaphor and symbol can provide a way of accessing the mystical and “heavenly” that is present in the physical world, not distinct from in it some kind of “transcendental reality.” My point is that the “spiritual” is a way of *understanding* the physical, not a mode of being separate from it. Metaphor is a way of engaging this. My goal here is to defend the dignity of metaphor as such and as a vehicle for re-seeing and re-experiencing the physical as a spiritual phenomenon itself.
30 July 2010 at 00:57
kristiancanler
I don’t know if I’m fundamentally missing your point or if we fundamentally disagree. More likely, I’d just change your language a tad. I agree with everything you said, but would say that the activities you described are the forms of literature and philosophy, not pure mysticism. In other words, relating mysticism to our world versus mysticism itself.
30 July 2010 at 01:20
Matt Shafer
Yeah, that makes sense. I think I over-stated it a bit. What do you mean by “mysticism itself” though?
30 July 2010 at 01:25
kristiancanler
Contemplative mysticism. Meditation. Silent prayer. Mertonishness. “Why Not Be a Mystic?” by Frank Tuoti. Mysticism is that which we humans cannot define but we have faith exists and interact with directly. Or mysticism is the name for the interaction. The thing is God or Truth, etc.
30 July 2010 at 01:29
Matt Shafer
Ah. I guess my point is I don’t think there’s a fundamental difference between that and the other thing you set it in opposition to, namely “relating mysticism to our world.”
30 July 2010 at 14:12
kristiancanler
We’re on the same page within the scope of your reflection, but I’ll work up a presentation for a thought categorisation system I created early in the summer you might find interesting.
30 July 2010 at 14:27
Matt Shafer
sweet, i look forward to it.
29 July 2010 at 21:46
Carole Denton
I can imagine those souls with God in the universe beyond ours asking God to prove that a spiritual nature exists in our material beings.
1 August 2010 at 09:51
Richyroethke
Love this discussion!!! In any event, I think you and I will just have to disagree, because of our differences in perspective. I think you work purely from experiential knowledge, which doesn’t fit in with what I know of the world (not that experience has no place, it’s just the ultimate manner of how we know things). i’m curious if you prefer the empiricists (Berkeley, Hume, etc) over more postmodern thinkers (Derida, Michel Foucault, etc), because if I can know the branch of philosophy you most closerly subscribe to it would help me understand where you are coming from (i believe you must have parted ways with Liebniz by now, eh? that’s kind-of what i’m assuming…). In any event, i DO agree with you on the issue that mysticism is intricately tied in to the Christian faith…i just think we disagree on the implications of what that means.
1 August 2010 at 09:52
Richyroethke
Oh, and i have no idea how i logged in as both profiles…i have a couple different blogs, i guess. sorry if it was confusing.
1 August 2010 at 11:33
Matt Shafer
I would actually say that I prefer the postmoderns, but I haven’t read Derrida or Foucault yet, just Lyotard. Liebniz actually still speaks to my understanding of the world in a lot of ways, but that’s complicated. I wouldn’t say that I work purely from experiential knowledge at all, actually — I think this is where you misread me. Rather, I recognize that all types of knowledge (experience, reason, revelation, etc) are conditioned by context and social location (which is where the postmodern influence comes in).
6 September 2010 at 16:21
brazenbird
Thank you everyone. V. interesting reading.